Curse

Ren Falconhand · Mar 30, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44

[QUOTE=Bousiris Hierophos]

BTW, how can one complain about the moral message offered by a game that proudly features killing other human beings wantonly in a PvP arena? Naked dancing is wrong, but mass destruction of others based on guild tags is OK?

QUOTE]
Way to go Hierophos

This is what still gets me mad

the Double standard in games and movies why is it bad or amoral to show people dance nude or semi-nude but it is ok the kill hundreds of people. I personal think death is a little more harmful than sex. In other Countries they have nude people reading the news. (a little xtream I know but I was just useing it for an example) "A put on clothes button" is fine but I do not want to have to wait even a few more weeks so they have to change such a minor part of the game that will just change with time anyway. I think Anet (was wrong in other post when I said Bnet) Is doing a Great job and would hate to tie up Precious game Developing time on a moral debate. just one nutcases Opinion.

Ren

Ice Kold · Mar 30, 2005, 02:55 AM // 02:55

1. if you are worried about your wife coming in and seeing people in their boxers dancing on your screen you shouldn't be watching them.

2. If your wife thinks people dancing means they are having sex, maybe its time you showed her what sex really is.

3. If #2 isn't an option, you can always explain to her that they are 'dancing' not having sex, nor are they naked.

I think they should let you dye your boxers different colors.

Loviatar · Mar 30, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegriffgeeks

(bold by me)

How about this, it IS a game so leave the objectionalable things out of it.
objectionable to you

Why do we have to leave? Do you just leave when presented something you find objectionable, probably not. We're not less than human nor did we pay less for the game, so we're not the ones that should leave.

why should THEY leave because YOU object?

It is a very valid arguement because we have also paid for the game. And this game is not rated adults only. It is rated E.

not e but t and they paid also

Actually our maturity level is pretty high along with our moral standards. If you have a family there is no time when they're not around. And why would one go sneaking around to play, that's being deceitful. There is no reason why one can't play in the open a game that's rated E. If you have children you understand the issue pretty clearly.

only considering YOUR standards as worthy

Don't trash people's moral standards. We're not idiots or less than human because we have them.

and the people you criticize have no standards or inferior ones

and to clarify THEY ARE NOT NUDE

walder · Mar 30, 2005, 03:07 AM // 03:07

There is no way to stop people from dancing in their underwear, but if it bothers you that much then when you see it, right click and turn so that you don't see it. Not that big a deal. If its everywhere around you then switch districts. Once again, it is only minimal effort to fix your problem.

Mss Drizzt · Mar 30, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

I would just like to add

IT IS JUST A GAME

Lets all have fun and get along.

Trexton · Mar 30, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegriffgeeks

so what you're saying is we're unteachable or that one can only have fun if they're half naked or??

You can start by realizing that there is more than one way to have fun in a game. Some have fun RPing, some enjoy PKing, some enjoy farming, and some enjoy dancing semi-naked at fountains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegriffgeeks

Why do we have to leave? Do you just leave when presented something you find objectionable, probably not. We're not less than human nor did we pay less for the game, so we're not the ones that should leave.

Well you should be the one to leave because you are the one with the problem.

I also don't understand how you feel "degraded" by clicking on switch district in the upper left hand corner of your UI.

I would recommend trying to solve your problem on your own before venturing out for others to solve it for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegriffgeeks

It is a very valid arguement because we have also paid for the game. And this game is not rated adults only. It is rated E.

T-rating

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegriffgeeks

Actually our maturity level is pretty high along with our moral standards. If you have a family there is no time when they're not around. And why would one go sneaking around to play, that's being deceitful. There is no reason why one can't play in the open a game that's rated E. If you have children you understand the issue pretty clearly.

Do you ever take your kids to the pool? Do you complain about people being indecent there? A swimsuit doesn't look that much different than people running around in GW undies.

But on a serious note. Your children should not be in the room if you feel they cannot handle the exposure of the semi-nude dancers. Saying that violence is ok but nudity is not is naive- and you should be ashamed of yourself if you think nudity is worse than cutting someone down in a video game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegriffgeeks

Don't trash people's moral standards. We're not idiots or less than human because we have them.

Never claimed that you were an idiot nor did I trash your "standards". That is the angry puritain talking inside of you.
If you have such high morals then you will be kind enough to isolate and solve your problem on your own. No one is forcing you to watch naked dancers- for goodness sake just ROTATE YOUR CAMERA if it be!

Great example of how American society works here. Sex is bad! Flesh is bad! Provakative movements are bad! Yet- when it comes to cutting down another human being in an animation it's all of the sudden.... ok?

-- There are limits and reasons for filters. It is for those areas that cross a line that it can be agreed by the general public to require moderation. Gore, Mature taunts, and chat filters can all be seen as a threat to offend someone. The level exposure in guildwars however, is not crossing one of those boundaries.

Ren Falconhand · Mar 30, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Thanks to Trexton for saying what I was trying to get a cross. Also how did you do that cool split quote box thing. I tryed it and it did not work for me. (as everbody could see) I can only get the quote box if I use the whole post and some are just too big to do that.

Ren

thegriffgeeks · Mar 30, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

and the people you criticize have no standards or inferior ones

and to clarify THEY ARE NOT NUDE

I never said they were nude! Half naked & nude aren't the same.

point 2 It is We who are being criticized and trashed for having morals...and I didn't criticize anyone. You only accuse me of criticizing because you don't agree with our point of view.

point 3: Feel free to go around and trash my standards, but then don't be surprised if i respond. and don't get all accusatory saying you're being criticized when you're not.

DarkWasp · Mar 30, 2005, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

If you can't beat them, then join them

You stole the words right out of my mouth.

Mss Drizzt · Mar 30, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Ladies and Gentlemen the round is about to start. Please take your seats we will be getting started here shortly.

Ding Ding

Both sides come out swinging and we have a double K.O..

Loviatar · Mar 30, 2005, 03:35 AM // 03:35

[QUOTE=thegriffgeeks]

point 2 It is We who are being criticized and trashed for having morals...and I didn't criticize anyone. You only accuse me of criticizing because you don't agree with our point of view.

QUOTE]

again you make my point for me

you are being criticized for having morals

and all who disagree ..........dont?

EDIT

i see no point in my continuing in this discussion

before it drops lower i will agree to disagree

thegriffgeeks · Mar 30, 2005, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Forum Guidelines
?? No Flaming
This one is pretty straightforward. We encourage discussion and healthy debate, and personal attacks are not warranted in either.

Trexton, no chance you crossed the line in your second post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trexton

The level exposure in guildwars however, is not crossing one of those boundaries.

And you would know this because? What....you determine the ratings?! The information on ratings can be found here.
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp

It clearly states: "TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood and/or infrequent use of strong language" And the rating on this game is Teen with violence.

If typed content has a filter so should visual content. If I don't want to see it, a filter should be available and leaving shouldn't be my only choice. If I don't want to hear it, I set a filter.....not leave. BTW the last time I check this game isn't about dancing in your undies it's about questing and fighting "bad guys." I don't care if anyone dances in GW butt naked...I don't want to watch it! I don't care if anyone wants to swear in GW, but I don't want to hear it. That is the general point here.

Chev of Hardass · Mar 30, 2005, 04:10 AM // 04:10

How about when setting up an account, or creating a character, a rating mode is set. I think that changing the dances is more than likely out of the question, coding wise, so could be my suggestion for that matter.

This would prevent those that choose the *?* rating from seeing the skivvies of the other players. That should be fine with those that want to see themselves almost nekkid.

How about a new poll? One that allows those that are impartial or like to see the skivvies to make their voice heard.......

Darkmane · Mar 30, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

I just like to add my 2 cents to the posts I find a waste of time.. (since I currently have some time to waste)

I'd like to say something like ' people that nit pick about a game's mechanics in this particular way are just the kind of people that nit pick about any little 'misguided and demented thing they see online'

I simply do not see what the big deal is usually the people dancing are just finding something to do with the last few minutes of gameplay. Those that are dancing in their skivies all the time may have other issues to deal with, it is really not that big of a deal.

I can't remember the poster but that person that stated Americans are taught that being nude or half nude is the naughtiest thing in the whole wide world. It is kinda sad that a lof of people are so afraid of their own bodies that they can't handle seeing someone elses. Keep in mind here that these dancers are not completely naked.

I think you should add to the poll~ People that want current dancing mechanics left alone.

Heres a good filter

#1 ...If you have a scroll button mouse ... scroll all the way forward to first person view and turn your head away from the dancing.

#2...Too many people dancing.... Go to the International district .. wooo hardly ever anyone in that district.

I simply can't believe there is a heated post about naked dancing ... but .. here we are

Simply the same people that complain about violence in games.

Trexton · Mar 30, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Griffgeek my point is not about morals. But I do truly believe that guildwars was rated "T" for the violence and suggestive (Fantasy) material and not for the so called "Nudity". If people were dancing in their panties in fountains IRL- then I would totally agree. It's the fact that it is a game and you want a company to spend their time and their resources for a problem that you have and can solve on your own in a matter of seconds.

spiritofcat · Mar 30, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trexton

Griffgeek my point is not about morals. But I do truly believe that guildwars was rated "T" for the violence and suggestive (Fantasy) material and not for the so called "Nudity". If people were dancing in their panties in fountains IRL- then I would totally agree. It's the fact that it is a game and you want a company to spend their time and their resources for a problem that you have and can solve on your own in a matter of seconds.

I might dance in a fountain in my underwear if I knew it was the end of the world and I wasn't going to be alive the next day...

ackir · Mar 30, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19

I would only agree to the option of only viewing people with clothes on if, conversely, there was also an option to only view people with their clothes off.

It's a matter of personal responsibility. Area.net isn't responsible for what people do with the game they have made unless there is some coding error and they are following the ESRB rating conditions. If revealing/suggestive dancing is a deal-breaker for you then I suggest you find another game to play as it isn't very likely that the censoring option you want will make it into the game.

Dreamsmith · Mar 30, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegriffgeeks

Don't trash people's moral standards.

Was there a moral question being discussed in this thread? Besides when people brought up killing? There's a good moral question: when is it okay to kill? Never? Only in self-defense? Or in war? Or criminals if they're bad enough? THAT is a genuine moral question.

Questions about how you dress are questions of style, and opinions of how someone else is dressed are matters of taste. It kind of belittles genuine moral questions and ethics as a whole when you start classifying things like that as "moral questions". Pretty soon, people start ignoring moral questions because what everyone is telling them are moral questions are petty.

When you throw questions like that into the box called "moral questions", sure, you have more standards, but you don't really have higher standards just because you have more of them. Indeed, from the perspective of someone who tries to stay focused on the important issues, your moral standards appear diluted with trivial things.

Where do you draw the line, then? There's no clear answer to that. But count me among those who say if you think running around in your underwear is a moral question, you've drawn the line far outside of anything reasonable. If you don't like it, I can understand that -- your tastes differ from others. But don't belittle ethics by treating something like that as if it was a moral question. That doesn't strengthen you ethically, in fact I'd have to say just the opposite in my opinion.

thegriffgeeks · Mar 30, 2005, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trexton

Griffgeek my point is not about morals. But I do truly believe that guildwars was rated "T" for the violence and suggestive (Fantasy) material and not for the so called "Nudity". If people were dancing in their panties in fountains IRL- then I would totally agree. It's the fact that it is a game and you want a company to spend their time and their resources for a problem that you have and can solve on your own in a matter of seconds.

one more time I agree with the original point of the post. Which I believe was about there should be a way to filter the suggestive visual stuff..that way you can have all the character preferences and personal expression you want and I don't have to be subjected to them if I don't want. It's already done in chat, and they are already limiting the visual effects on the gore. So put in a visual filter. There is no cause for us to have to leave the district if we don't want to see it...I guarantee you it will be in all districts. I should not have to change the way I'm playing the game so others can do whatever they want. Maybe they can make a district just for all the skivie break dancers.

And stop calling it my problem. It's not a problem, problem suggests that there is something wrong with me. Just because in your opinion there is something wrong with me doesn't make it fact. It is a preference, just like yours.

Jeanette · Mar 30, 2005, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegriffgeeks

If typed content has a filter so should visual content. If I don't want to see it, a filter should be available and leaving shouldn't be my only choice. If I don't want to hear it, I set a filter.....not leave. BTW the last time I check this game isn't about dancing in your undies it's about questing and fighting "bad guys." I don't care if anyone dances in GW butt naked...I don't want to watch it! I don't care if anyone wants to swear in GW, but I don't want to hear it. That is the general point here.

Wrong. The games rating was based on the content provided at the completion development stages of the games formal design, the game was based around violence, minimal language, etc etc. The game was looked upon with the characters in their underwear (safe asssumtion) and was acceptable to the raters of ESRB. The game was rated T with people in their underwear, the game is not crude in any way. There was not a requirement to force a filter upon the game to make characters keep their clothes on, and thus, is not going to made at all. If you want to sensor this game because of characters using free will to do as they wish (hence part of the term RPG), then you must also sensor every other T rated game (Even some E games have characters in their underwear) on console and pc. Because this is definatly not the only game that shows characters in their underwear and have not made patches for them to keep their clothes on.

::Edit:: I didn't include that whole quote because it was to long, and I don't want this to come off as sounding offensive, it's just the way things are, to be honest I could care less if they made a filter cuz I don't dance in my underwear.

View Poll Results: If an option/feature could be added to guild wars, what would help this issue?
Only view fully clothed players.	24	68.57%
Hide player dancing.	15	42.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

Mar 30, 2005, 02:55 AM // 02:55	#42
Ice Kold Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2005	1. if you are worried about your wife coming in and seeing people in their boxers dancing on your screen you shouldn't be watching them. 2. If your wife thinks people dancing means they are having sex, maybe its time you showed her what sex really is. 3. If #2 isn't an option, you can always explain to her that they are 'dancing' not having sex, nor are they naked. I think they should let you dye your boxers different colors. Last edited by Ice Kold; Mar 30, 2005 at 02:57 AM // 02:57..

Mar 30, 2005, 03:07 AM // 03:07	#44
walder Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005	There is no way to stop people from dancing in their underwear, but if it bothers you that much then when you see it, right click and turn so that you don't see it. Not that big a deal. If its everywhere around you then switch districts. Once again, it is only minimal effort to fix your problem. __________________ Robotic Chuck Norris owes you Nothing!

Mar 30, 2005, 04:10 AM // 04:10	#53
Chev of Hardass Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Under a rock Guild: zP Profession: Me/	How about How about when setting up an account, or creating a character, a rating mode is set. I think that changing the dances is more than likely out of the question, coding wise, so could be my suggestion for that matter. This would prevent those that choose the ? rating from seeing the skivvies of the other players. That should be fine with those that want to see themselves almost nekkid. How about a new poll? One that allows those that are impartial or like to see the skivvies to make their voice heard.......

Mar 30, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44	#41
Ren Falconhand Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Passed out on my Keyboard from lack of sleep from playing GW too much Guild: The Harpers Profession: R/Mo	[QUOTE=Bousiris Hierophos] BTW, how can one complain about the moral message offered by a game that proudly features killing other human beings wantonly in a PvP arena? Naked dancing is wrong, but mass destruction of others based on guild tags is OK? QUOTE] Way to go Hierophos This is what still gets me mad the Double standard in games and movies why is it bad or amoral to show people dance nude or semi-nude but it is ok the kill hundreds of people. I personal think death is a little more harmful than sex. In other Countries they have nude people reading the news. (a little xtream I know but I was just useing it for an example) "A put on clothes button" is fine but I do not want to have to wait even a few more weeks so they have to change such a minor part of the game that will just change with time anyway. I think Anet (was wrong in other post when I said Bnet) Is doing a Great job and would hate to tie up Precious game Developing time on a moral debate. just one nutcases Opinion. Ren

Mar 30, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14	#45
Mss Drizzt Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: communist state of NJ	I would just like to add IT IS JUST A GAME Lets all have fun and get along.

Mar 30, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24	#47
Ren Falconhand Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Passed out on my Keyboard from lack of sleep from playing GW too much Guild: The Harpers Profession: R/Mo	Thanks to Trexton for saying what I was trying to get a cross. Also how did you do that cool split quote box thing. I tryed it and it did not work for me. (as everbody could see) I can only get the quote box if I use the whole post and some are just too big to do that. Ren

Mar 30, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34	#50
Mss Drizzt Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: communist state of NJ	Ladies and Gentlemen the round is about to start. Please take your seats we will be getting started here shortly. Ding Ding Both sides come out swinging and we have a double K.O..

Mar 30, 2005, 03:35 AM // 03:35	#51
Loviatar Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Feb 2005	[QUOTE=thegriffgeeks] point 2 It is We who are being criticized and trashed for having morals...and I didn't criticize anyone. You only accuse me of criticizing because you don't agree with our point of view. QUOTE] again you make my point for me you are being criticized for having morals and all who disagree ..........dont? EDIT i see no point in my continuing in this discussion before it drops lower i will agree to disagree

Mar 30, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35	#54
Darkmane Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2005	I just like to add my 2 cents to the posts I find a waste of time.. (since I currently have some time to waste) I'd like to say something like ' people that nit pick about a game's mechanics in this particular way are just the kind of people that nit pick about any little 'misguided and demented thing they see online' I simply do not see what the big deal is usually the people dancing are just finding something to do with the last few minutes of gameplay. Those that are dancing in their skivies all the time may have other issues to deal with, it is really not that big of a deal. I can't remember the poster but that person that stated Americans are taught that being nude or half nude is the naughtiest thing in the whole wide world. It is kinda sad that a lof of people are so afraid of their own bodies that they can't handle seeing someone elses. Keep in mind here that these dancers are not completely naked. I think you should add to the poll~ People that want current dancing mechanics left alone. Heres a good filter #1 ...If you have a scroll button mouse ... scroll all the way forward to first person view and turn your head away from the dancing. #2...Too many people dancing.... Go to the International district .. wooo hardly ever anyone in that district. I simply can't believe there is a heated post about naked dancing ... but .. here we are Simply the same people that complain about violence in games.

Mar 30, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55	#55
Trexton Banned Join Date: Feb 2005	Griffgeek my point is not about morals. But I do truly believe that guildwars was rated "T" for the violence and suggestive (Fantasy) material and not for the so called "Nudity". If people were dancing in their panties in fountains IRL- then I would totally agree. It's the fact that it is a game and you want a company to spend their time and their resources for a problem that you have and can solve on your own in a matter of seconds.

Mar 30, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19	#57
ackir Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2005	I would only agree to the option of only viewing people with clothes on if, conversely, there was also an option to only view people with their clothes off. It's a matter of personal responsibility. Area.net isn't responsible for what people do with the game they have made unless there is some coding error and they are following the ESRB rating conditions. If revealing/suggestive dancing is a deal-breaker for you then I suggest you find another game to play as it isn't very likely that the censoring option you want will make it into the game.